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Someone Had to Bring it Up... GoT ::Spoilers:: Show & Bo

 
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Xinpheld
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 6:49 am
Post subject: Someone Had to Bring it Up... GoT ::Spoilers:: Show & Bo
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I'm just gonna come out (pun intended) and say it-- Renly and Loras?? WTH? I have no problem with gayness, but was that really necessary? There seems to be some sort of contractual requirement that, if a show is produced for cable, there has to be at least one gay couple.

Was there ever any indication that either of these men leaned in that direction? Sure, Renly was kind of aloof, and there must've been a reason
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but still... Loras, in the books, never once indicated to me that he was anything but a fervent young buck with rich tastes. Just because a guy is pretty, doesn't make him automatically gay. Is there something I missed in the book that shows otherwise? It's entirely possible that both my wife and I missed it. It just seemed totally out of place in the show, for me.

Also out of place, The Eyrie and its Lady Lysa. The quick glimpse of The Eyrie in the distance seemed pretty wrong to me. Isn't it supposed to be built into the side of a mountain, not free-standing like an enormous faerie house?

Lysa seems way-over-the-top crazy at the get-go. Sure, maybe there's not enough time in the show to properly develop her madness over time, but she looked completely bonkers from step one. Up to now, I've been pretty happy with most aspects of the show, as it rides with the book. But the last 10 minutes of this last episode nearly derailed everything for me.

Thoughts on the matter, anyone?

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Patrick
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 5:25 pm
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Actually, I kind of liked that change, because GRRM seems like one of the very-many hetero male fantasy authors (RJ among them) who put lesbian couples in books, presumably because they find it adolescently titillting, yet either ignore gay men altogether or else present them invariably as pedophilic perverts.

Lysa...yeah, a little over the top, and I was about as impressed with The Eyrie as I was with the Red Keep (which is to say, not very), but I'm guessing she won't get that much airtime on the series, so there wasn't much chance to advance her madness.

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julie
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PostPosted: Thu May 19, 2011 5:35 pm
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Sounds like maybe you do have just a wee problem with gayness. *l*

Considering that an estimated 10% of the population is homosexual or bisexual, I don't think it's all that shocking that a show with a huge cast of characters (like most of the pay cable dramas) would have a homosexual couple. And, to be quite frank, I was watching the show with my spouse, my 17 year old son and my 20 year old son and I got extremely uncomfortable during that scene - more so than the hetero sex scenes. Then I thought about it later and I thought why on earth should I be more uncomfortable with that - it was no more graphic than the hetero sex scenes. We saw Theon hangin' out (literally) with his little tart, after all. And there has been plenty of...energetic...Dothraki style.

That said, I was also a little confused when I read that Loras and Renly's relationship would be more blatant in the show than it was in the books. I had not realized they had a relationship when I read the books - and I read them all at least twice! But I also read that Martin himself was surprised that more people had not picked up on it. He intended it to be knowable, if not exactly screamingly obvious. I am discovering on my current re-read, however, that if you are paying attention to what is really being said in the dialogs, as opposed to hurrying through to get to what's going to happen next - it really shouldn't be a surprise. I've read a number of lines now that have had me saying "Oh, OK. How did I miss that??" And to top it all off - Martin even went so far as to make Renly's Kingsguard "The Rainbow Guard". It's eye-rollingly silly!

On Lysa and the Eyrie: I couldn't agree more. And I will go further by saying that she is the worst casting I've seen in the show. I've been pretty content with most of the casting, but she is a total mis-fire. Lysa was supposed to look a lot like Cat, for one. She was supposed to have been beautiful, for two. And she was supposed to have gotten rather plump since the last time Cat saw her, for three. That woman was in no way plump - she looked like a silicone implanted scarecrow. (and btw, we were all totally skeved at the thought of the young actor who played her son having to shoot that particular scene.) And despite what people keep saying about Cat not being attractive enough, if you look at her bone structure and her eyes, you can see that she was beautiful at one time, but having five children and living in the North for 15 years has been hard on her. With Lysa, there is no hint of former beauty at all.

Also, just as another aside, I think her hair IS auburn on the show. It's just a shade darker than Sansas, and women's hair does tend to darken/coarsen/thicken with age and pregnancies.

And the Eyrie looks ridiculous.
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Xinpheld
Bird Man of Alka-Seltzer


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PostPosted: Mon May 23, 2011 6:43 am
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julie wrote:
Sounds like maybe you do have just a wee problem with gayness. *l*


It's not gayness I have a problem with, it's pandering. Knowing that the relationship actually existed in the books, even if it was, um, underplayed (IMO probably disguised/downplayed as possible but ignorable by GRRM in case anyone disapproved, considering the court of public opinion at the time he started writing the books - I personally don't blame him if that's the case) makes me more comfortable with the situation in general. I just hate when things get tweaked to score points with current society. Just because I missed it in the books, doesn't mean it wasn't there. I'm pretty dense, after all.

As to the 'rainbow' thing, (book 4 spoiler)
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I'm so glad that I'm not the only one who disapproves of the Eyrie. And Lysa. She's many things, but shrill was not one of the things I pictured. She practically looks like a mummy, and that's apparently on purpose, because I've seen other pictures of the actress and she's not nearly so gaunt and bitey erstwhile.

BTW, I'm pretty sure that Lysa's boob was fake. There are laws against that kind of stuff, which luckily aren't thrown out the window for actors. I'm sure they could have given the impression of maniacal nursing without making the kid actually put his face to a fake boob, and having that be all out there for the rest of his days, for his grandkids to look at one day. Unfortunately, I think subtlety in television has pretty much been pretty much left behind. Giving the impression of something can be just as powerful, if not moreso, as actually showing something. Peoples' imaginations are far worse than anything that an effects person could come up with. Or at least, they used to be. #idiocracy

The Moon Door-- a hole in the floor? Really? They may as well have hung a flush chain next to it. (book 3 spoiler)
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I'm glad they've been getting Dany's stuff right, even barring the Giant Warning Signs that tell us that She doesn't get burnt. No one's going to be scared for her at the end of the book, now. The horse heart scene was great, though, and Viserys' crowning was precious. The 'clunk' sound he made when he hit the ground... heh.

Also, I'm very happy with Bronn. The championing scene was perfect, save for the flushing out the Moon Door at the end. A Waste of perfectly good armor, that was.

They did a nice job of making Joffrey seem almost charming with Sansa. THAT is how you develop contrast.

We tried to watch ep7 online last night, but there were serious server problems at HBOGO. I can only imagine the arguments between the ambitious-but-technically-clueless execs and the poor IT guys who had to deal with the mess. If the hashtags were any indication, there were a lot of unhappy people last night.

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Megaret



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Tue May 24, 2011 5:34 pm
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Renly and Loras's scene seems pretty tame after watching episode 7. Just sayin
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Jade
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 1:12 am
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I think that a lot of our TV and movies are overly and unnecessarily prudish... but HBO and Showtime sometimes feel the need to compensate by being ridiculously gratuitous about it *lol*

I didn't mind Lysa as much as you guys apparently did - or the Eyrie. Bronn was suitably awesome (as was Tyrion, as always).

I like the way Dany and Drogo's relationship has developed - they have such an unusual dynamic to their relationship, but so much affection and love, and I really got a sense of that. I think the actress is doing a great job with the role. And I like Jorah too. I think her storyline is appearing the most the way I imagined it out of all the characters.

Joffrey actually almost seemed sincere with Sansa! It was amazing! Then he went back to being a total dick - he has the role down pat!

And now it's approaching the end already... So, are they planning on doing the rest of the series too? I mean, that only gives them, what, 4 years to catch up with GRRM? Do you think that will prod him to get a move on at all?

I bet the show will help his book sales ....

Jade

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Xinpheld
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 6:22 am
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they already have a green light for a second season, so CoK is a for-sure, at least. And the fact that Dance with Dragons comes out 2 weeks after the end of the season won't hurt sales, true. What are the chances they'll be pushing i-IV box sets right after the show's over? Or do they already exist? *googles* Yep, they do. It even has Sean Bean on one box panel. I'm betting Cersei is on the other side, and the winged Iron Throne from the show's opening sequence on the back.

Let's hope this is the kick in the pants that GRRM needs to stop watching football and write.

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Xinpheld
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PostPosted: Thu May 26, 2011 6:26 am
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Dang, it's Dany on the opposite side of the box, and a generic 'bleak landscape' for the back. The Iron Throne would have looked cooler there. :)
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julie
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 7:49 pm
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Megpie, you were NOT kidding.

Nothing like being a mom watching a little soft core girl on girl action with your 20 year old and 17 year old sons.

Why George? Why? What was the point? Littlefinger was just trying to give us a little exposition on his personality. Why did it have to be punctuated by serious 'when harry met sally' sound effects? And corresponding visuals? why??? I can see throwing in the little Dany is lonely and missing her man scene later in the series, but this is just flat out gratuitous. Nothing remotely contributory to the story. Gah.
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Megaret



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PostPosted: Wed Jun 01, 2011 9:50 pm
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I tried to warn you!
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Xinpheld
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 6:26 am
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Producer 1: Let's see... this internal monologue section for the Littlefinger is kinda boring, but it's important for the story.

Producer 2: So how can we spice this up?

Producer 1: Hmm...

Together: {collective gasp} Lesbians!!

Fin.

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Megaret



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 02, 2011 8:47 pm
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He didn't join in because he is saving himself for Cat*









*Zombie Cat. (Which by the way I think this actress will do great with if it gets that far (and they decide to leave it in *l*). She had no lines in her last few scenes at all really, mostly meaningful looks.)
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