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I guess I'm the first.... (Towers of Midnight SPOILERS)
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Alle
The First Evil


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 2:31 pm
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I just wanted to touch upon Eggy gathering her massive force: Rand actually manipulated her into doing this. He knew she would oppose his I must break the seals announcement and was counting on her to do this since he is only one person and can only do so much.

In Eggy's defense *gets back up after falling off her chair when realizing she is defending Eggy* Rand waltzes in and announces that he will set the DO free and has NO PLAN in place as to how to seal him back in again. At least no plan that he shared with Eggy. I think (hope) he has some plan, but he wanted to get Eggy to react and so doesn't share that part. As far as Eggy knows, he is still affected by the taint and he didn't outline any plan. The way she reacts definitely is arrogant and typical of her, but I don't blame her for having some misgivings at the very least for the idea of breaking the seals. What annoyed me more was Suian (I think it was her) thinking to herself that it was good that Eggy had brought Nyn back to the WT since she (Nyn) was siding too readily with Rand. Bah to you Suian!
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Rhodric
Lord of the Morning


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 5:09 pm
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First of all, "killjoy old fogies" is awesome. You made me fall out of my chair laughing. Egwene is special. I think if you took a slice of all of wot fandom, she might well be the most hated character of all time. On the other site I post on, theoryland, the largest thread is titled "wtf, egwene?" and it's over 20 pages long (400 posts) at this point. Rand knew what she was gonna do, and she did not fail to rise to the lowest common denominator. I think what bothers me, and others so much, is her inner monologue and the way she goes about doing it. Things like saying Rand has to answer for all his asha'man have done but then brushing off dumai wells and the box as no big deal. And then there's the point where she gets all irritated when Nyn and then Perrin by extension don't capitulate and sell Rand out in the first 5 seconds. And then of course there was her speech to Mesaana that made no sense whatsoever. I could go on for pages, but I won't.

Just for clarification sake, breaking the seals isn't freeing the DO, it's just opening the Bore back up to War of Power width. Now that's not a good thing, but neither is it a complete freeing of the DO, considering it was open and unblocked for 110 years before the sealing.

The whole Aiel thing left a bad taste in my mouth too. Thing is, if they don't suffer massive casualties in the Last Battle, I don't see how the Aiel are weakened enough to wear the Seanchan win. Now I understand that damane are a huge advantage, but the Ever Victorious army has already taken massive casualties against Rand, Mat, and Ituralde. Just didn't make sense to me.

Them being male channelers from the Aiel occurred to me but it seems unlikely. They would have only had taint protection since book 1, so I don't know how there could be more than a few dozen. Remember, the ones that go to the Blight are the sparkers, not the learners.

I'm probably one of Pat's nickpickers, though what bothers me most are words that just don't belong, and sometimes he likes to introduce new flora and fauna and sayings that just don't seem like they jive with the world. The voices are all better though.
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Alle
The First Evil


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2010 6:24 pm
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I am totally one of Pat's nitpickers and although I am deeply grateful to BS on finishing the series, I cannot ignore the silly language that gets used at times in his books. I don't blame BS for using his voice at all, but I really blame the editors for not smoothing a lot of that sort of thing out. Yes, its a pain in the butt to catch, and they can't seem to catch normal typos, but would make a huge difference I think. Of course, most of the fandom seems to be in awe of BS with lots proclaiming tGS (which had a lot more nitpicky stiff in it the ToM) to be one of the best in the series, so I am in the minority. And thats fine, but for every proclaimation of 'OMG this book is the best WoT book evah' and 'BS has rejuvinated and redeemed the series' etc that I have to read, I will make my own nitpick comment to help offset. ;-p

Yeah I don't really think the Aiel-vampires are really Aiel channelers that were sent to the Blight, but it was a cool theory I read. Also, they wouldn't need to carry the spears that they had if they can channel.
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Rhodric
Lord of the Morning


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 2:03 am
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nitpickers unite? lol.
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Patrick
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 11, 2010 1:17 pm
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Hmm...I kind of see what you mean about Egwene, Alle. If it's due even partly to Rand's own strategy, then I feel better. *l*

As for BS...well, I'm not really sure if I'm a fan of his "style" or not, to be honest. I really liked the Mistborn trilogy, but I've been slogging through Warbreaker for more than a month, and it's just not hooking me. Word choice is actually a big part of it...the magic system is called "BioChroma," which seriously, to me at least, sounds like some sort of cheesy 90s shooter video game.

Nit picking grammar and typos? I'm all for that. This book has some of the shoddiest copy-editing I've seen in a major novel in a long, long time...I must have come across at least 50 errors that simple proofreading could have discovered. Come on, Tor...it's not that hard!

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Rhodric
Lord of the Morning


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 12, 2010 12:27 am
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If they cut out the copy editing portion of the process they can make even more money...we already know that they aren't spending any money on materials, although ToM's spine hasn't quite cracked yet...lol There were a couple axe/hammer typos that really threw me off for a few seconds.
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julie
Wicked Wisdom


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 13, 2010 5:26 pm
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I finished it about 20 mintues ago and then came here to read the spoiler posts that have been taunting me for over a week.

I liked it.

I can chat tonight. This is good.

I also laughed when Perrin considered throwing the dreamspike into Mt. Doom. And I got a good chuckle at Mat easing the badger.

I liked all the loose threads getting tied up. I'm psyched for all of them coming together in the next book and going to the Last Battle.

I will be very interested to see how the whole Seanchan dilemma is sorted out. Somehow they have to get them to see reason on the damane thing. That's just wrong. Rand can't allow that to continue and he must have in some possible timeline, considering Avi's experince with the columns.

Was also a little nervous when no Tower of Ghenji until very late in the book. But I thought it played out very nicely. I didn't get particularly verclempt when Noal had to stay behind. That was pretty obvious and I didn't have any emotional attachment to the character at all. He was practically a red shirt, for godssakes.

I was very very very irritated with Perrin for deciding to take the dreamspike to Tar Valon. That is by far the most completely moronic thing the man has done in 13 books. Hello!!! He knows the thing makes it so no one can make a gateway. He has no way to know what other things it might do to channeling, and he takes it right to the center of channeling in the free world.

Other than that, I loved the Perrin parts. I loved the resolution of his troubles with the flaming White Cloaks. I think the Berelain/Galad pairing is hysterical and a stroke of genius on somebody's part.

Egwene...well...she definitely did and thought some really stupid things in this book, but I still have to be impressed with her work to ally all the female channelers with her bargain with the windfinders and wise ones and aes sedai. That was a good move. And turning Messy into a drooling lump was also outstanding. She and Perrin definitely need to get their heads together on the Dream World tricks.

The whole Black Tower story line is incredibly irksome for me. It's like a damned soap opera story line where every time you think the good guy/gal is going to figure things out finally, some new horrible roadblock goes up. I am strongly in the camp that thinks Taim could be Moridin. He clearly has a dreamspike and I don't think the face time would be too hard on him. He has access to power that no one else knows about. My "uh oh" reflex was tripped when Rand made the comment that the Guardian in [can't think of the name of the city right now, but you know where I mean] only stops the One Power.

Oh, and why would Graendal be an obvious person to kill Asmodean?

I have to go work out, have some dinner, and get back in time to chat.

Later, Freaks.
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Alle
The First Evil


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 12:25 am
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Glad you enjoyed the bool Julieeeeeeee. Just a couple of comments before I go take my shower:

Berelain and Galad pairing was foretold books and books ago via a Min viewing or an Eggy dream...can't remember. I am sure Carly-poo does. So credit goes to RJ for that. *s*

The Graendal being Asmo's killer: it is mentioned in ToM the number of Foresaken that fell by way of Graenny, and since we as readers have 'witnessed' the deaths of these Foresaken we can then deduce that Asmo is being attributed to Graenny. She really has helped out the Light, hasn't she? heh.
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Rhodric
Lord of the Morning


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 2:53 pm
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I can't believe you don't remember. *put upon sigh* Sometimes I think I'm the only hardcore wot fantasy freak left at this site.

LoC Chapter 50:

"A man in white would sweep her off her feet." (min viewing)


I think Julie might be referring to RJ's comment, circa 1993, that Asmodean's killer should be "intuitively obvious to the most casual observer." Obviously it wasn't, as even the most hardcore wot fans have been arguing about it for 17 years. Graendal had a lot going for her though. There were Arad Doman comments made that alluded to the fact that Asmo had contact with her. Also she had the chance and the motivation and would have caused Asmo's reaction just prior to death.

While Moridin/Taim is a theory I have subscribed to in the past, it doesn't have to be true. The dreamspike is in TAR, and there is no indication that Taim has TAR knowledge. He could be a proxy for Moridin, but there are several comments from BS which make things interesting.

"Taim is not a standard third-ager."

and when asked if Taim was a Darkfriend, Brandon said something to the effect (not verbatim)

"oh wow, I could really blow things up with that one, RAFO."

Obviously Taim is not really just Taim, but then we all "knew" that. Still, let us not close our minds to any possibilities.

Oh I think Perrin's done a lot of dumbass stuff in 13 books. he failed to kill Eg with the dreamspike though so I'm starting to wonder if he can do anything right. All kidding aside, he has fully realized his Thor/Wolf King identity, and that's cool.
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Patrick
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 3:16 pm
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Rhodric wrote:
Sometimes I think I'm the only hardcore wot fantasy freak left at this site.


What am I, chopped grolm droppings? :P
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Rhodric
Lord of the Morning


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 6:37 pm
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Just trying to rile you up my dear. And you are much more succulent that grolm my duckling. *pinch*
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Big Bubba
Slayer of Unreads


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 7:49 pm
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I guess I don't count either... *sniffs*
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Alle
The First Evil


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 14, 2010 11:50 pm
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Rhodric wrote:
I can't believe you don't remember. *put upon sigh* Sometimes I think I'm the only hardcore wot fantasy freak left at this site.

LoC Chapter 50:

"A man in white would sweep her off her feet." (min viewing)


I think Julie might be referring to RJ's comment, circa 1993, that Asmodean's killer should be "intuitively obvious to the most casual observer." Obviously it wasn't, as even the most hardcore wot fans have been arguing about it for 17 years. Graendal had a lot going for her though. There were Arad Doman comments made that alluded to the fact that Asmo had contact with her. Also she had the chance and the motivation and would have caused Asmo's reaction just prior to death.

.


*snicker* Its much more fun to get you to give the quote, book and chapter. ;-p

I seriously don't know why the Asmo murder was so confusing. Once RJ stated we had all the info needed, it was pretty obvious to me who did it. *shrug* Sherlock would be proud...or not. *l*
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Xinpheld
Bird Man of Alka-Seltzer


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 8:20 am
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I'm not quite finished (just got through the ambush of the Whitecloaks), but I just wanted to make a few comments.

Perrin has been superb in this book, for once. Though, like most things in this series, he took forever to realise something that we knew about 4 books ago, that the only good leaders are the reluctant ones.

Ok, here's the the thing about Egwene and this seals issue: it occurs to me that Rand told her in such a way about the seal-breaking as to MAKE her get everyone's ducks in a row and rally, just in time for the Last Battle, thus saving him from having to do it himself. "I guess you can call me Rand Sedai" smacks of a reference to manipulation, angling the truth toward a desired outcome. What he did was a real-life version of something like, "Hi, Mr. President. I'm going to go tamper with the Earth's core. See ya later." and then casually walking out. Egwene doesn't have Rand and Min's knowledge of the seals situation, and since no one in this series knows how to communicate properly (I'm beginning to think it's actually a genetic trait in Randlanders), what Rand pulled was the next best thing.

As to the lack of Tower references, is it any worse than KoD, where the actual knife was mentioned only one time, and then only sort of in passing? I realise the potential significance of the object-- imagine Rand making war and being completely Invisible to boot?

Speaking of which, the Rand scene at the Borderlands was pretty sweet. The wanton destruction really freshened things up a bit. And if I were Itrualde, I'd be pissed, too. "We all died because some sheepherder with a voice in his head was feeling too mopey to fight evil that day?"Sheesh.

Mat's letter: blech.

One thing that I've been seeing as a benefit of the Sanderson influence-- the layered/woven storylines. The way the Slayer and Tower battles were interwoven in the Dreamworld were pure Sanderson.

Elayne is still All Idiot, I'm glad she's gotten over this invulnerable-cos-I'm-pregnant thing. If only she'd gone into a coma until the twins were born, we'd all be better off.

All in all, I can't imagine Gandalf the Wh-- I mean, New Rand-- living at the end of the book. Someone with so many barely-checked injuries, both internal and external, could only be living on willpower alone. The boy is burning his candle at both ends, and has stuck a few extra wicks in there to boot.

Finally, the whole hammer-forging scene was pure magic. That had to have been written by the man himself.
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Megaret



Joined: 07 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Wed Dec 29, 2010 6:37 pm
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I just finished Towers of Midnight and I am finding it hard to believe that RJ left no notes, scenes or directions involving gratuitous spankings occuring in the last two books. There was a spanking in every chapter of KoD iirc.
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