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Moiraine



Joined: 27 Nov 2006
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Location: Tar Valon

PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 4:03 pm
Post subject: Immigration
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Just wanted to be enlightened about what you guys feel about immigration in the U.S. I mean, are you okay with it? At the rate that people are migrating here, there are a lot of problems solved and created. What do you think and should it be a problem at all?
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Patrick
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Joined: 05 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 9:12 am
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My perspective on it is pretty wacky, I'll admit; it's the issue that I am the most liberal about (well, it and gay marriage...).

Frankly, I'm all for open immigration. I think that immigration restrictions and the Visa application process should be eased, and that illegals already here who have been here for at least five years should now get amnesty (call it whatever you like). Also, the process of acquiring citizenship is in my opinion in dire need of streamlining. The deportation of parents (of children who are natural-born American citizens!) because they are illegal is atrocious.

I don't see why there should be some kind of absolute divide between border security and a more open immigration policy. People are coming to the United States for better opportunities, and why shouldn't we let them in (so long as they behave; see below)? They obviously want in badly enough to defy border regulations and make hazardous journeys to get here, whether that means crossing the desert or traveling in a rickety boat.

In my experience, and admittedly this may be a local thing, I don't know, about 90% of opposition to immigration in America is either nativist or racist. You should hear what many Kansans say, that immigrants are "dirty Mexicans" who are "stealing" American jobs, and other unsavory things that I won't get into here (attitudes about Middle Eastern immigrants are particularly nasty). It would be one thing if such attitudes were the province of lone kooks and wackos, but they are not; there is a <i>lot</i> of anti-Hispanic racism here, even on the part of other minorities. Even our mayor, a very successful Cuban-American immigrant, has been subjected to some of it (though the fact that he was elected speaks well of the majority of Wichitans, I think; we're rather more tolerant than some Kansans).

You should have heard the things that were once said of my own ancestors, which were not too different from what people are still saying in 2007. And they were legal immigrants, mind you.

But, I also believe that immigrants, legal or not, who commit violent felonies should be summarily deported. I have no sympathy for people who come to other countries and murder, rape, rob, or otherwise assault their host's citizens.

Anyway, that's my opinion.
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TamAlthor
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Joined: 09 Nov 2006
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Location: Alberta Canada

PostPosted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 10:21 am
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What has driven america to be the success that it is? hard work. dedication. etc. So much of the population born within it's borders now have an attitute of apathy, and feel that everything they have is a right rather than a privalage that their ansestors fought/worked for.

Most immigrants, weather legal or illegal had to work very hard to come into america. They paid a hefty price one way or another. So many come from cultures where hard work and dedication is requierment. They come to america and will work like a dog just to have a job a janitor/housekeeper, Not to mention the rich cultural heritage that they can bring with them. Students who come to collage univeristy work even harder (in most cases) cause they know the value of a good education and the money it took to get them there.

Sounds to me like America could use more immigrats who love to work in america than a bunch of snot nose kids who would rather sit back and live off of mommy's, daddy's, or the Goverment's dime.

If America and Canada didn't have the immigration polices that they had back in late 1800 I wouldn't have the life i have now. The land of oppertunity is still that.

As for immigrants stealing jobs? I work a job here in Canada that any american could be doing, if the company that is paying me wanted to pay american wages. Don't get me wrong there, NAFTA is freeking paying for my house, car, and life.

Bring on the immigants and bring back the glory of America.


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jaytheredwizard



Joined: 18 Jan 2007
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Location: South Carolina, USA

PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 4:43 am
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I can trace my Mom's side of the family back to when America was still an English Colony, and My Dad's side goes at least as far back as the early 1800's with some talk of an ancestor that fought against the crown in the Revolutionary war. However, I can also find Native American heritage, and Irish blood. In other words I am about as "American" as it gets. All my Ancestors yes even the Native Americans where all immigrants to this continent at some point in history.

America is a place, but it is more of an ideal. People have fought and died for this country so that there would be a place of freedom where people could lead good lives. I believe that they didn't fight just to give their children that chance, but for everyone that wanted that chance could have it.

I am not saying we should open our borders, but we should have some sort of system in place where we all benefit. There are people in America illegally for good reasons, and surely we could make it easier for people to come to work in America and apply for citizenship. I don't know how to fix the immigration system, but something needs to be done about it before it does become a problem.

Immigration isn't seen as a problem where I am from. The immigrants that we do have are good respectable people that want to help their families back home. I have worked with them on several occasions, and it was never a bad experience. In fact I would work with an Immigrant who didn't speak English over a lot of other people I have had the "joy" of working with. The fact is that some immigrants do take jobs from Americans, but most of the jobs they do most of us wouldn't want to do anyway.
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Genia



Joined: 28 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 6:02 am
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The only thing I have ot say about the USCIS is this:

As someone who has gone through the immigration process myself, it is no wonder to me that so many people do it illegally, instead. That is all.
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hurtta
The Bad Finn


Joined: 05 Nov 2006
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Location: San Jose, CA

PostPosted: Sun Apr 29, 2007 8:45 am
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Quote:
As someone who has gone through the immigration process myself, it is no wonder to me that so many people do it illegally, instead. That is all.


Amen to that! *l*

I'm glad I made it before they decided to raise the filing fees (from $300 something to $900 something). Oh, apparently they filed some of my paperwork incorrectly (or the right hand doesn't know what the left had is doing) cause it took me 3 months to get my SSN and 2 months to get my driver's license. According to them they needed to make sure that I was here legally. Even though I carry around their stupid Permanent Resident card (that came in the mail like a week after my application was accepted).

Okay, stopping now. *l* I meant to just say the amen and leave it at that but apparently I couldn't...
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Mofox



Joined: 07 Oct 2008
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Location: London

PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:15 am
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My outlook on immigration is different from yours. Probably cos i live in the UK though.

We get 100,000's of immigrants each year and from the second they are granted a visa they get:

Council Housing
Health Care
Education
Benifits

ALL FOR FREE

It really annoys me...

I don't mind people coming here to work but don't think they should get and freebies until they've been paying tax for a substantial time.

Australia has the right idea. They score you on you qualifications and your intended professions and then check if there is a job shortage in your area of work before letting you in.

(sorry if i come across as a Xenophope here :P )
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GilShalos



Joined: 05 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 09, 2008 2:03 pm
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Being an immigrant in the UK I always find it interesting when people say that immigrants come here and are automatically entitled to taxpayer's hard earned money.

When I first moved here I was given a temporary residence visa. To get it, I had to prove that my marriage to my British spouse was a real one (not just marrying to get entrance to this country) and that I would have a place to live and sufficient funds to support myself. I was entitled to NHS care, but not unemployment benefits, council housing, education benefits, or any other public funds.

Once I'd lived in the UK for 2 years, providing that my relationship still existed, I was entitled to apply for indefinite leave to remain here. Again, I had to prove that I still had funds to support myself and a place to live (2 years worth of payslips, and our rent records from our landlord). I also had to have 2 years worth of official letters or utility bills in both of our names to prove that I still lived with my husband. If I had been found to have accessed public funds in any way I would not have been granted further leave to remain.

Once indefinite leave to remain was granted I was finally allowed access to public funds if I needed them. The right to access educational funding was denied to me for a further year.

Obviously, this would have been different if I was an EU citizen. But I suspect that there are few Brits that disagree with the half of the reciprocal agreement that allows them to move to other EU countries....

I think the main thing to remember is this: Just because tabloid headlines like to say that immigrants have an easy time doesn't mean they are right....
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Jade
Seven of Jade


Joined: 05 Nov 2006
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Location: Santa Barbara, CA

PostPosted: Sat Oct 11, 2008 1:20 pm
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and a note on Australian immigration policy: in principle, perhaps it sounds good that immigrants should be screened for their qualifications, but ultimately it's a way to keep Australia "pure". I lived there for 12 years, and all of my friends are great open-minded people, but as a nation, Australia is very xenophobic. The immigration policy up to 1973 was called the "White Australia Policy", and specifically prohibited immigration for anyone not white. And if you think there isn't a legacy from that today, even greeks and italians face schoolyard discrimination as "wogs", because they're not considered "white". The "One Nation" party received 9% of the national vote in the 1990s, based on a platform of eliminating immigration for asians because "they don't assimilate", and africans because they "have diseases", as well as some very racist viewpoints against Australian aborigines as well (I think the irony of being anti-immigrant ~and~ anti-native was lost on them).

Anyway - immigration laws in Australia officially can no longer be based on country of origin or race, and as such there is a pretty high number of "more skilled" immigrants from places like China - but the vast majority of immigrants are still British, or from other white Commonwealth countries. But those screening standards for immigrants qualifications is a more subtle way to carry on discriminating against immigrants from poor countries.

I think we all need to remember - America, Canada, Australia, and other colonies were all founded in large part because people left Europe due to poor living conditions seeking a better life for themselves. Plenty of people who want to keep out the Mexicans and Asians from the US were themselves Irish or Italian immigrants less than a century ago who faced similar discrimination. We're all doing very well for ourselves now, because we were given the opportunity to go from a poor struggling country to one with more resources for us.

But now we're all happy with the status quo, and we want to say that only doctors and scientists and well educated people can come be part of our countries. Well, if that had been the case 100 years ago, many of us wouldn't be here. It's people from those poorer countries who ~need~ to immigrate the most.

I specifically remember during the Kosovo crisis, Australia granted refugee status to a decent number of people. They stayed here for a while, started making friends and putting down roots in the community - and then when the crisis had settled down, although many of them tried to apply for immigration status, Australia forcibly kicked them out of the country without a moment's thought. And when I say the crisis settled down, I only mean the worst of the violence was over - these people did not have homes to go back to in Kosovo.

Ok, I think I've gone on more than long enough.... I just want to make the point that under Howard's reign as Prime Minister, there were a lot of ugly things about immigration policy (and I have no idea if any of it will change under the new government). I haven't even touched on the place they put people who try to get into the country illegally.

In principle, it can sound good to have a screening process to get more educated and skilled immigrants - but you should question the motivation and the end result of such policies.

Jade
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Chinaren



Joined: 15 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 6:25 am
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Countries and borders should be a thing of the past. It's about time we did away with them all, and allowed people the freedom to go wherever they wanted.
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Hachiko
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Joined: 07 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 16, 2008 9:54 am
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Immigration is too big an issue to be resolved in one quick post.
Two major problems we have with immigration today are:
The 14th Amendment, enabling illegals to have their Anchor Babies
The companies/citizens that act as enablers. These are the people that hire illegals as contractors/gardeners/nannies, the small business owners who hire them, the construction firms, the meatpacking warehouses, etc.

I'm sorry, America is kind of full enough without a surplus 20 million people. Allow the original immigration laws to stay in place, it's not like I think there should be no immigration. Heck, my wife is an immigrant, but her case was handled the legal way, the way that cost us thousands of hard-earned dollars.

So, end the 2 pointless wars we have going on, and let our troops patrol the border. Not that I hate the Mexis, but they are the biggest offenders.
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GanZ



Joined: 15 Apr 2009
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Location: Liverpool/Middlesbrough

PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 7:50 am
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My thoughts on UK immigration are rather simple:

A small island is not made to hold 67 million + people (maybe off slightly on the millions) and because of this immigration should be very strict. Australian system would be ideal but then again I shall be leaving Britain’s shores at some point in the future.
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Silverstone



Joined: 31 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 6:05 am
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I agree with Hachiko on this one. I worked as a bail bondsman in California for a few years and the amount of crime commited by illegal aliens is hard to swallow. Not to say they commit more crimes then legal residents but it is not helping a system of over crowded jails and over worked law enforcement officers. The kicker is even after they're caught, they don't deport them. They are usually appointed a public defender, also over worked, and then muck up the court system with fines they can't pay or if they are looking at a prison sentence they bail out high tail it to mexico and come back 3 months later with a different name. I know i sound racist but thats the way i see things in my little corner of the world
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Hachiko
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 10, 2009 4:58 pm
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Silverstone wrote:
I agree with Hachiko on this one. I worked as a bail bondsman in California for a few years and the amount of crime commited by illegal aliens is hard to swallow. Not to say they commit more crimes then legal residents but it is not helping a system of over crowded jails and over worked law enforcement officers.


Silverstone, don't forget that 100% of illegals are committing a crime just by standing on U.S. soil.


Quote:
I know i sound racist but thats the way i see things in my little corner of the world


It's not racist. A lot of folks carry the stigma that naming a spade a spade is a racist because there are so many bogus 'civil rights' groups that cry it's racist to primarily focus on Hispanic people. Thing is, that's just what the numbers reflect.
Most white people aren't afraid of being around 'brown' people, that's B.S. We don't need this surplus here right now. If I was in the UK, I would complain about the Paki and Polish illegals. Color is not the issue here.

Your observations are sadly on the money. Don't forget how many hospitals have been bankrupted by delivering anchor babies and taking care of day laborers hurt on their jobs, as well as the strains on schools and other agencies.
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TamAlthor
The Zeppo


Joined: 09 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:13 am
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Bail bond issued and crimes commited are certainly a good way to try and quantify your stance, however how does one know that the numbers reported actually reflect the what is really happening? IE acutal crimes commited by demographic. It is only based on what is reported to the police and what the police are able to verify/look into.

As for 'bs civil rights' and so forth, it may not be a perfect system but at least it is not dogs and fire hoses being turned on children. Yes it needs work but what goventment/legal process doesn't? At the same time illegals can not vote. So it stands to reason that these 'bs civil rights' were put in place by elected officals right? These officals are put in office because a majority of people voted them in. So the majority of people want these civil protections.

Also maybe hispanics and other illegals are the new Manifest Destiny? Better start packing son you're gunna be relocated to an American Resurvation, and be careful when buying and beads or blankets (this last was intended to be a satirical comment and I hope not too offensive).

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Hachiko
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 11, 2009 8:30 pm
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TamAlthor wrote:
Bail bond issued and crimes commited are certainly a good way to try and quantify your stance, however how does one know that the numbers reported actually reflect the what is really happening? IE acutal crimes commited by demographic. It is only based on what is reported to the police and what the police are able to verify/look into.


As far as actual crimes are concerned, it is worth noting that all of these people are committing a crime daily just by being on U.S. soil.

Quote:
As for 'bs civil rights' and so forth, it may not be a perfect system but at least it is not dogs and fire hoses being turned on children.


I can't speak for everyone, but if you give me a choice of using my tax dollars to give these people free food and medical coverage or hoses and dogs, well, I can't lie and say I'd prefer the latter, but I'd definitely prefer some more border protection to keep them the hell out.

Quote:

Yes it needs work but what goventment/legal process doesn't? At the same time illegals can not vote. So it stands to reason that these 'bs civil rights' were put in place by elected officals right? These officals are put in office because a majority of people voted them in. So the majority of people want these civil protections.


Most elected officials just try to ignore the problem at hand for fear of bad P.R., occasionally throwing some gimmes to the illegals to shut the Civil rights crybabies up. Maybe there is one, but I've never heard of a politician the boldly declared his/her intention to divert copious amounts of tax dollars to benefit illegal immigrants, and still winning an election. Even Obama has avoided the topic like a plague in his first year.

Quote:
Also maybe hispanics and other illegals are the new Manifest Destiny? Better start packing son you're gunna be relocated to an American Resurvation, and be careful when buying and beads or blankets (this last was intended to be a satirical comment and I hope not too offensive).


Maybe it is, I'm am well aware that we are in the middle of a Reconquista. When the illegals become the majority, I will leave. So far, the only skill most of these people display proficiency in is reproduction. But we'll see.
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TamAlthor
The Zeppo


Joined: 09 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 8:25 am
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*Offers hand for a shake*

It's been nice talking to you.

Thank you for your time.

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mononokifool



Joined: 01 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 1:42 pm
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I believe that people are people no matter where you live and deserve to be treated as a person should be no matter the circumstance. I believe that basic rights to life should be granted to any one, regardless if they went through our bogus immigration process, which should include housing, food, education, and health care. I personally could care less how much money is taken from my wallet because there is not one person out there I would rather have more money than give them basic rights of life.

I also personally don't believe in the existence of borders or even sovereign states, this may be off topic but it pertains since borders and states are what make immigrants illegal.

Also most crimes committed my immigrants are not crimes of passion but rather crimes committed because they have no place to stay, business owners pay WAY too little, ect ect. Eliminate these problems and 90% of crimes would disappear.
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Hachiko
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:19 pm
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mononokifool wrote:
I believe that people are people no matter where you live and deserve to be treated as a person should be no matter the circumstance. I believe that basic rights to life should be granted to any one, regardless if they went through our bogus immigration process, which should include housing, food, education, and health care. I personally could care less how much money is taken from my wallet because there is not one person out there I would rather have more money than give them basic rights of life.


Yes well, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I'm glad that you wouldn't mind living in abject poverty to make sure that our illegal friends have full bellies, but I suppose that is your prerogative.
As someone working 2 jobs plus odd jobs to feed and provide insurance to my own family, seeing people who are not entitled to even live in this country (yet) being spoon-fed the things I toil for, and using resources taken from my paycheck to do it with, it does lend to a certain amount of, ummmm, resentment.
You talk about 'basic rights of life'. Guess what? They have that in their country, they just want more, and honestly, I don't blame them. However, it's up to our government to turn them away.
And please don't even give out the excuse of America being founded by immigrants. If we allowed everyone around the world who wanted to live here and could afford a plane ticket to stay here, the country would've sank into the ocean already.

Quote:
Also most crimes committed my immigrants are not crimes of passion but rather crimes committed because they have no place to stay, business owners pay WAY too little, ect ect. Eliminate these problems and 90% of crimes would disappear.


Really? MS-13 is in existence because of low pay scales? Really?
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mononokifool



Joined: 01 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 12, 2009 2:33 pm
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To be honest they do not have that in their country(I'm amusing you are still talking about Hispanic's), what they have are few rich people who buy off politicians and drug lords that ravage the common people. They arnt guaranteed a house, food, health care, or education. Most are not coming over here to ruin our lives but improve their's and their families. Would you not do the same?

Also MS-13 and other gangs stem mostly from lack of education, and being shunned from society. If latinos were accepted in the work place and in higher education like most well established American families are then there would not be an MS-13. When people are thrown out and told they are worthless they join together
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